48 Comments
User's avatar
Kay Walten's avatar

"Crowds become the experience."

The destination doesn’t change. The conditions around it do.

At some point popularity stops adding value and starts eroding it.

Stephan Giannini's avatar

Off-season. Bring an umbrella.

Edmund Morris's avatar

There's a destination ad campaign in this idea somewhere.

Sarah May Grunwald's avatar

My husband is a licensed guide in Rome and works at the Vatican every day. There is no longer an off season.

Cheryl's Photos and Memoirs's avatar

My travel destinations always avoided popular locations. Instead of Paris or Milan, I traveled to Cameroon, Inner Mongolia, Iran, Yemen, and many similar very off the beaten path destinations. The travel was highly rewarding, culturally enriching, and very photogenic. I don’t like dealing with crowds of rude, ignorant tourists. Give me camping and trekking through the Sahara Desert anytime.

Joe Ehrlich's avatar

My travels have been similar to yours.

I have never visited Rome, but I have been to Gaziantep. I’ve never been to Venice, but I have been to Noumea. If a destination is even mentioned in Condé Nast or the Travel section of the NYT, I don’t go there.

Edmund Morris's avatar

This is how I feel about Instagram.

Cheryl's Photos and Memoirs's avatar

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s so rare I meet people who understand this issue.

M.J. Safoμtiη's avatar

“Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded” -Yogi Berra

Edmund Morris's avatar

I love this quote.

Mara | The Nomad Dossier's avatar

I love the point about the influencer economy turning every 'hidden gem' into a checklist item. It feels like the new challenge for travelers isn't just finding a place to go, but finding a place where you can actually breathe and connect with the surroundings. Thanks for sharing this perspective!

Ilaria Fatone's avatar

I hate crowds and I hate being on holidays and surrounded by people. When we visited Japan, a couple of years ago, I decided to avoid the places which are tourists’ attractions. They are probably not the “places-to-see” on a guide but they are among the best experiences we had.

Our perception of a country has been forged by travel agents, travels guides and, in the last decade, social media. But every country has so much to offer which is, most of the time, just around the corner of a major attraction. It takes longer to find it, it implies to leave the most known tracks and get lost in a city. but it is so much worth your (holiday) time and effort 🫶🏻

Caroline & Davina's avatar

Yep - just think about your own country - mine is the UK - and the number of people who just hit the Londons, Yorks, Cotswolds etc and know how much they have missed out on by ignoring the rest.

Ilaria Fatone's avatar

I’m Italian and living in Southern France and I can compile a very long list, in both countries, of « missed-out places » 🫶🏻

Retrouve ta lumière.'s avatar

If you want a real antidote to overtourism, go to Falerii Novi Walls — just about an hour from Rome. Almost nobody goes, yet it feels like stepping into a time machine: intact Roman walls, ancient gates, silence, open countryside, and that eerie feeling of walking through a lost city outside the tourist script. It’s the kind of place that reminds you travel is still about discovery.

CIN_EWL's avatar

Have a look @Mara | The Nomad Dossier

Tom McGrath's avatar

I just got back from Italy and a friend wants to get my feedback because he is looking to visit next summer with his wife and two college aged daughters. I really don’t know what to tell him. I don’t want to shit on his plans, but I would never travel to Europe in the summer.

Caroline & Davina's avatar

Well, the best thing you can do is describe what it could be like/probably will be like so he can decide for himself. That's what I would hope a friend would do for me.

Tom McGrath's avatar

Sounds like a plan. And I’ll start out by asking him a lot of questions, to see what his thoughts are.

Mats Hoefler's avatar

This hits a nerve because it’s not really about crowds, it’s about what crowds force you to become as a traveler. You stop noticing and start optimizing. Wake up earlier, book further ahead, move faster, tick things off. At some point the place disappears and you’re just managing logistics inside a very expensive system.

I’ve had both versions of the same place. Once in Kyoto where you’re shoulder to shoulder, phone screens everywhere, everyone chasing the same shot. And once where you turn a corner ten minutes off the main path and suddenly it’s quiet again and the whole thing feels real. Same city, completely different experience.

I don’t think the answer is better planning. That just turns travel into a more efficient version of the same problem. It’s choosing differently. Less obvious places, different timing, or just accepting that you’ll skip things entirely. The “must-sees” are often the least interesting part once they’re saturated.

Curious how you think about that trade-off. At what point does a place stop being worth it, even if it’s “iconic”?

Edmund Morris's avatar

Mats I love this response so much. I agree - I don’t think it’s better planning. There comes a point where you can’t optimize Kyoto, Venice, or Dubrovnik. It’ll come when destinations and investors/shareholders realize that destinations have a life-cycle, where there comes a point where tourists just say “it’s not worth it” and begin looking elsewhere. Where I get worried though, is that most do not invest in that type of data or information where they’d know when that happens…

Slim Greige's avatar

Local high taxes for professional travel influencers who use foreign places for their business social media would solve parts of the problem.

Apple Not Far's avatar

Our family has navigated Italy from its southernmost tip in Pozzallo, Sicily, all the way up to the Austrian border at Brenner, and from the eastern docks of Trieste to the western shores of Finale Ligure. We didn’t just visit Italy; we moved through it with nothing but backpacks - using trains, buses, and ferries.

Venice, Milan and Florence was indeed the least interesting part. I am not saying that it is _punishment_ to go there - but once in Italy I just would not waste my time on these towns, cities.

In Riona Sanita (Naples - but not the touristic part) a complete stranger lady cut her own pizza in half and offered a great chunk to my 5 years old - because we had to wait 'too long' for our own pizza. There are vulcanoes, ancient ruins, catacombes literally everywhere..

Letters From Paris's avatar

Was at Giverny the 1st week of April, it had just opened for the season and we were there at opening time. The line was SO long!! The crowds SO bad, even in the gardens it was shoulder to shoulder. The guidebooks say it takes about 90 minutes for the full visit. We were in and out in under 40. Literally intolerable. Fortunately I had been with my dad 25 years before. That is how I choose to remember those gorgeous gardens and the house. This visit was a nightmare. I will never go again and wouldn’t suggest anyone go.

Sonal Bhardwaj's avatar

I agree with what Kay mentions in her comment. Popularity in fact is what is increasing the value of commodities and services and devaluing the experience. In today’s over exposed and over communicated world no place is hidden gem. Once someone comes from a place which is less crowded we post on social media announcing about it. In the influencer economy which is fuelled to oversell these places the only thing worked to an extent for me is travelling totally off season. Last year I went end of November to Bologna and traveled across Emilia romagna. Yes it was cold and not the best weather as in summers but there was probably 1/4th of the crowds. Experience mattered to me so I was very pleased.

Peter Benei's avatar

I think it takes bravery to go off the path, because most of travel is about signaling and less about enjoying the ride (sadly). Imagine you go home and tell about your trip in Italy and you say, oh, we’ve never visited Pisa and the tower, instead, we stayed in next-town Lucca which was still crowded, but enjoyable. And in Firenze, we stayed on the hills of Prato, went in to central once, no David etc.

I don’t think its about research or knowledge. Literally in Rome, if you are not taking the usual main route to the Trevi, just 1-2 streets adjecent to it, you get a fraction of tourists, no groups, def no people with umbrellas shouting to follow them, and none of the bs you get in peak tourism. It takes to walk 2 mins more to the another direction, simple. But it is a decision based on bravery and curiousity, rather than anything else.

ed flynn's avatar

We were in Rome in June a few years ago. It was crowded. I will say one of the best things we did was go down to the amazing paved path along the river. Like a quarter mile from the Vatican. We were literally the ONLY people there, save a few bicyclists. Of course see the Vatican, colluseum, Pantheon... then venture out. Tourists, especially the annoying kind don't venture out. Same experience in Madrid, Valencia etc. Southern Europe is huge with cool things to see explore. Not even far off the beaten paths but like a few blocks from the main attractions.